richard.bibby
From New Covenant Church, Weymouth
22 juli 2008 - 8:20pm
Has anyone experienced tension between the band and the sound guys... how it was resolved?
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I have noticed that sometimes I turn up at church and find that the 'Sound Guy' is just about ready to do something nasty to 1 or 2 members of the worship team, like tie them to the nearest post or something!!
I haven't lead worship for a few years now, but have recently started to attend the practices and I guess it won't be long before I get to play or even lead.
I am just wondering if anybody has had any experiences where there has been some tension between members of the band and the sound guys, what caused it and how it was resolved. Also I would love any thoughts about how to make the whole session go smoother. Our sound guys work soo hard and I feel for them. How can I as a musician make their life a bit easier?
I suppose I should say that the church I attend is rather small scale compared with some of the city churches, about 300 members. I don't know if this makes a difference?
Mastervolume
From ROCKHARBOR
22 juli 2008 - 9:49pm
soundmen.....and soundwomen for that matter...
The toughest thing for a church that relies on volunteers for sound and musicians is the level of ability for all involved.
Typically the sound person is someone who is technically minded. Perhaps they ran the A/V dept in school or worked in theater.....they are not always the best person to hear a mix and need to be trained for what to listen for.
The musicians also need to be instructed on sound checks, sound levels, they might even have to be reminded that this isn't about them.
Pray with them, include them in the process. Have the WHOLE team on the same page.
www.worshipmusicians.com
As a 'sound guy' if there is one thing which really bugs me it's not doing a proper sound check before the service starts. At my home church I would often have to do a sound check on the fly when the services starts. For a few reasons:
a) Not all the band members turn up on time.
b) The band seems to think they have more important things to do and the sound check often is the least important in their mind.
I get on absolutely fine with the team but they still do it. But they and I know if they get an issue half way through the service because they didn't do a sound check it's not my fault.
How about including the people who fly the PA and do other technical support jobs as part of the whole worship team. You avoid "us vs them" when something is "our" problem.
Wulf
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Bassist for The Elusive Teeth, The Pico Brown Five and Hither Green Baptist Church
For me the sound guys literally are part of the team as we are blessed with people who are musicians/percussionists that have volunteered to help out with the PA, including myself from time to time.
To answer you question about what sort of thing drives a sound engineer(?) nuts is probably somebody on stage turning up their amp because they can't hear themselves. Not only does this reck the sound out front for the S.E. but also the sound on stage for the rest of the band. If the musician in question would ask to be turned up in the foldback the S.E. would be very obliging and do so, allowing the S.E. to control mix of the overall sound and keep his/her temper in control also. Communication is very important between band and S.E. and not always easy when the meeting starts.
Tim Case
www.newlife-church.org.uk
I used to head up the sound ministry at my previous church, so yes I have had many experiences where there has been tension between the sound team and the worship team!!
Usually what caused it, honestly, was pride. It's just easy to get arrogant and know-it-all no matter what side of the microphone one is on. And I think especially for those running sound because it's like they have all the power and control over everything, you know?!!!
But I think another thing that causes tension is a lack of appreciation for the people running the sound. If you think about it, the only time they get noticed is when something goes wrong. When everything sounds great, no one thinks about the work put into making it sound great. But as soon as there's feedback, all heads turn back to the sound team, faces grimace at them, and the pastor comes to them afterwards to tell them to not let it happen again. That's a bit exaggerative, I know.
I think the keys to success in a sound team are humility and coming with an attitude to serve the singers and musicians. Make the worship team feel like they are totally taken care of, you've got their backs, keep the stage nice and clean, make sure they're comfortable, and tell them they sound nice.
As for the worship team relating to the sound team, I would say please be patient and just release the sound team to do their job. Also release them to make mistakes. Mistakes are teachers, and if we're not allowed to make them then we'll never learn. If it's a lack of training that's the problem, then bring someone in to do a training seminar with them. Oh, and it's always great to thank the people running sound after the practice and service!
fantastic post jessica. watch yourself - worship leaders will start circling to try and get you to look after their sound ministry!
Playing the "piggy in the middle" game for me was always the worst part of doing sound.
Having to stand directly in the gap between where a worship leader wants to lead, and where a congregation may (or may not) follow can lead to some scary fireworks over the edge of the sound booth!
Our way of dealing with this is to have one of the church leaders nominated as the contact point for all things techy so those of us op-ing on any given day have a respected authority figure to whom complaints could be made, reasoned with and when necessary have action taken.
Giving the techys the confidence of knowing someone has their back also helps them to feel more integrated into the family of the church, and not just a servant to be denigrated and cursed for getting things wrong.
Oh and thankyou Jessica for mentioning mistakes! Though I think you're pushing it asking us to keep the stage clean and tidy... Isn't it bad enough your sound guys have to touch the microphone you've been spitting into for 2 hours? :P :)
But seriously, it's worth pointing out that while most musicians get time to practice and perfect their playing away from public view, it is VERY difficult to get practiced in doing live audio without either a band or indeed an audience as both will have an effect on the dynamic equilibrium that is a good sound.
The simplest answer to the original question is to befriend your sound guys, invest in a relationship with them that will help you to do the things you want to do. I'd suggest regular "thankyou" curries, ALWAYS saying thankyou at the end of a service, asking them for advice on what you could do to make things easier / better... All the stuff you'd do with any of your other friends really.
Gotta love the way God seems to always boil everything down to the love in a relationship between people.
Love y'all
G
If you mic the kick drum, God will come.
Ha ha! Yes, indeed, His Spirit will fall if you mic the kick drum... That's great, Anglebracket! And I love what you said about it being bad enough that you have to touch mics that people have been spitting into! Makes me laugh...
At my previous church we used to keep a bottle of rubbing alcohol and cotton swabs around so that singers could use them to wipe the mics clean before they sang into them at practice. You wouldn't believe how much gunk came off - lipstick, dirt, and just plain yucky stuff. And that's what is going on your mouth if you don't clean the mic! Ew.
I like what Anglebracket said about having a "go-to" person for the tech team to contact about all matters techy. That's good, especially if all the production crew is volunteer.
This is always gonna be a hard issue in churches.. I think the best way to look at this is to remember we are all one body and that serving the church is a ministry of God and not a ministry for us..
I agree we can all own our bit of church.. we need ownership to grow commitment..
For us at HTB i've found that we need to grow the relationship with whoever holds the value of worship in the church.. For us it's Tim.. I work really hard to grow an awesome relationship of respect with Tim and the band.. If we respect them and what they are doing, then i return they will start to respect us.. We are all working together..
Here's my top tips:
1) Commmunicate.. include the band and teh tech guys in any commmunications.. let them know who is playing and whats happening in the service the week before.. This means the sound guys know what to expect
2) Turn up on time.. don't be late
3) Sundays are all about worshipping God and letting the congregation meet God.. If you have a grudge or the worship team annoy you, rise above it.. Make sunday happen and then deal with any bug bears on Monday.. Much better to leave any issues and pick them up after you've had time to think about it.
4) Pray together.. If the band gather to pray make sure all the tech guys go along as well... before or after the service.. submerse yourself in God
5) If you have weekely/ monthly worship team evenings .. invite all the tech guys.. We get together every term and it's awesome to learn and fellowship togther.. everyone who does anything to do with worship..
6) If your the worship leader.. Make sure you thank the sound Guy and the song words person.. all the tech guys
..
HTH
M
I volunteer on church sound team, I also look after production for a big-ish CU, I'm also employed to make sure that the lovely touring bands pass through my uni venue have beautiful sounding monitors:
My pet gripes:
1) Soundcheck. Guys... it's in the title... this often turns into rehearsal. If you find yourself using it as a rehearsal, then I want to lovingly urge you to fit in more practice time beforehand because by not giving me a soundcheck you're making it unnecessarily difficult for me to do my job.
2) Guitar amp creep. Please don't turn your guitar amp up. If you need to, you can either make yourself a soundproof amp cage out of acoustic foam, go wireless and put the amp in a different room, or invest in something like a marshall powerbrake. When you do this, you're making my job unnecessarily hard for me. I have to make the decision between raising the rest of the mix to an uncomfortable and distracting level to cope with your amp blaring on stage, or having an awful mix.
3) It's great to be thanked. But hollow praise, just cos Tim H told you to do it on the podcast means nothing. As an aside, all you girly worship types out there, I'm not the greatest fan of people flirting with me just so I'd do what they want. I want to help you anyway and it will most likely make me grumpy, and probably not respect you so much afterwards. And no-one wants a grumpy sound engineer.
I think that the only real way to guarantee avoiding seeming insincere when thanking someone on tech team is to actually stay behind and help them pack up one time. Also in this vein, perhaps consider learning how to coil cables, then offer to do a few after you've finished your set instead of just heading straight off to nandos.
4) Bill Donoghue said something great at one of the seminars at New Wine last week. It was something along the lines of ' a good leader only delivers a criticism over a long term background of encouragement'. Try to genuinely get to know your tech team. I've got the advantage at uni that I'm really good mates with many of our WLs. Maybe... shock horror... spend some time with them getting to know them on a personal level and a spiritual level, as well as on a 'worship team' level
Sorry if this seems a bit harsh...It's not meant to be, but coming from a background of being paid to work with secular touring bands it can be a little frustrating not working with people who know how to 'play the game'
Peace out,
Matt xx
New Song
Nieuwste forumberichten
